John Hoynes - Hoynes' Relationship With Josh Lyman

Hoynes' Relationship With Josh Lyman

When Josh Lyman was working for Hoynes, he vigorously encouraged the then-Senator to pick up his bullhorn and put the need for Social Security reform front and center in the presidential campaign, saying in October 1997 that not doing so would be like "running for president of the Walt Disney Corporation by saying you're gonna fix the rides at Epcot." When Hoynes confronted him, Josh said the campaign was well on the way and should have staked out a course by now, but Josh still didn't know what they were for or against, "except that we seem to be for winning, and against somebody else winning." That very day, Josh was visited by Leo McGarry and talked into coming to Nashua to hear Jed Bartlet speak. After hearing the New Hampshire governor, Josh wasted no time jumping campaigns.

In the White House, Josh somewhat reluctantly agreed with Leo McGarry that Hoynes was the right man to occupy the office of the Vice President. When the staff contemplated dropping Hoynes from the 2002 election ticket because of electoral math, Josh made a strong case for replacing Hoynes with Admiral Fitzwallace and seemed dismissive of C.J.'s reasonable counterpoint that Hoynes could then run an Independent campaign that would hand the White House to a Republican. Bartlet said Hoynes was staying for one reason: "Because I could die," prompting Josh Lyman's response: "Of course, he's right."

Josh Lyman is of the opinion that if only Hoynes would stick to his convictions all the time (like he does on the ethanol tax credit) instead of being a politician, there's no limit to what he could achieve. The very self-confident Josh is sure he could have made Hoynes president if he had followed his advice, as depicted in a conversation between the two in What Kind of Day Has It Been:

Hoynes: "Sometimes I wonder if I had listened to you two years ago, would I be president right now? Did you ever wonder that?"

Josh: "No, Sir, I know it for sure."

Josh and Hoynes clashed in Season 4's Swiss Diplomacy when a Democratic Senator threatened to hold up a prescription-drug bill unless top Democratic precinct captains were released from commitments to a future Hoynes Presidential race. Josh assumed that Hoynes engineered this event and was dismissive of him, and Hoynes hit back at Josh's lack of respect for him. The episode later showed that President Bartlet himself had organized the precinct captains for Hoynes, and released them reluctantly after Leo advised him to.

Later (season 6) Hoynes admits he lost the race the moment he lost Josh.

When White House Associate Counsel Joe Quincy figured out Hoynes had been having an affair with Helen Baldwin, he brought Josh and C.J. Cregg when confronting him, which sparked the remark by Hoynes: "You brought friendly faces, that was considerate." Josh also commented to Quincy on their way out that he "had better not have seen him smiling in there," obviously not happy at what might mean the end of Hoynes' life in politics. Josh was also upset when Amy Gardner carelessly noted that Hoynes' resignation from the VP was a great opportunity, leading Donna to tell Amy that Josh "doesn't leave people" and making it clear Josh cared a great deal for Hoynes even after everything that happened.

Hoynes' autobiography dedicates many praising pages to Josh, though Josh's reaction to this fact is somewhat ambiguous, seeming more occupied trying to figure out why Hoynes would write such a book rather than what he had to say about him. When Hoynes announces his return to public life, he also approaches Josh Lyman with an offer to run his campaign. This coincides with Josh's being shut out of the important China summit he had been working on for two months, due to diplomatic events over Taiwan. Agreeing with Hoynes that the alternatives ("Bingo Bob" and Eric Baker) aren't that much to smile about, Josh is seriously considering the offer. However, Josh doesn't believe that Hoynes could ever be the candidate he wants him to be, so he rejects his offer and finds himself a handpicked candidate, Texas Congressman Matt Santos.

In the middle of the Democratic National Convention, Josh Lyman approached Hoynes with an offer of being a "party elder" under a Santos administration in return for Hoynes endorsing Santos and releasing his primary delegates. Hoynes hesitated long enough for the offer to effectively expire, as Governor Baker announced his own candidacy, leaving Hoynes with too few primary delegates to be able to help the Santos campaign.