Wikipedia:Featured Article Candidates - Nominations - Broken Sword: The Shadow of The Templars

Broken Sword: The Shadow of The Templars

This article has been here at FAC many times, and always failed; the first time I nominated it was when I promoted it to GA, still a novice editor, who didn't know what a FA truly is. After editing on Wikipedia for a longer time, I learned how to create FAs, for example Ed, Edd n Eddy. Although latter nominations of this article weren't as negatively received as the early ones, they weren't positively received either. So after even more improvement, and a great copy-edit by the Guild of Copy Editors' Miniapolis, I'm almost completely sure this is a FA.

Thank you, Khanassassin ☪ 19:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

• Quick comment good work overall, but a few clarifications are still needed, eg "Leaving the cafe, he sees a journalist (Nico) photographing the scene.", who is leaving from the cafe? (Actually, both of the men leave this cafe, but you still need to explain).--Tomcat (7) 11:49, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
  • I've explained that "George" is the one who sees. Could you please specify exactly which parts of the plot need clarification? --Khanassassin ☪ 14:58, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
• Should the cities, eg "Marib", be linked? Or are they fictional?--Tomcat (7) 11:52, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
  • The only non-fictional locations are the actual countries and Paris. The rest, Lochmarne, Marib, etc., all fictional. :)

• More comments
• From the "Gameplay" section:
• "by selecting from multiple commands." - shouldn't that be simply "by selecting multiple commands"? Also perhaps replace "multiple" with "various" (sounds better imho)
  • replaced "multiple" with "various", but kept the "from". You choose from various commands, eg look at, pick up, interact with. You choose one of these, so it's from. "By selecting multiple commands" sounds like you select more of them at once. Maybe it doesn't make sense, but I think it's so.
• Can you also use keyboards or just mouse or gamepad?
  • No keyboard. Just the two.
• "George must collect various objects which can then be used with other collectible objects, parts of the scenery, or with other people in order to solve puzzles and progress in the game." - many errors here. "which can then be used" - weak wording, perhaps which can be pieced together, or something like that. The wording beginning with "parts of the scenery" is odd
  • I'm sorry, but I don't find any of this as weak wording...
    • So you think "its prose is engaging, even brilliant, and of a professional standard"--Tomcat (7) 12:51, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
• "the player gets a description and clues" - why is description in singular?
  • Oh. It's done now, I fixed it.
• Skipping next section
• From the Development section:
• " (after 1992's Lure of the Temptress and 1994's then-upcoming, Beneath a Steel Sky)" - this part can be merged with the sentence. For example, "After working on.... Charles Cecil stated in an interview..."
  • I simply removed the brackets, I think it reads better than if it would be put in the beginning of the sentence.
    • Not really. Please read this sentence aloud.--Tomcat (7) 12:51, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
      • The problem is if the beginning of the sentence would read "After working on LotT and BaSS...", it would sound as if work on BaSS was already finished, but it wasn't.
• " a reason he thought the Knights Templar an ideal subject." - something is missing here? Would be an ideal...?
  • Yeah, heh. Sorry, it's fixed now.
• "(which used a question-and-answer conversation system)" - I don't see a reason why this statement is in brackets.
  • Sorry, it's fixed now.
• "The game uses the Virtual Theatre engine, previously used for Lure of the Temptress and Beneath a Steel Sky." - to avoid repetition, perhaps "As is the case with...,"
  • OK.
• In the last paragraph of that section, why is "Beneath a Steel Sky" linked?
  • Oops. The link's removed now.
• "were released in September 2, 2010" - replace in with on (as exact date)
  • Done.
• Ok, that's all for now.--Tomcat (7) 16:56, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
• From the Reception section:
• "Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars – Director's Cut also received praise" - I would delink the game and just pipe-link "also received praise"
  • Done.
• " iOS versions" - are there different versions?
  • Yes - Wii, DS, PC, Mac and Android.
• Overall this seciton is fine
• From the Listings section:
• " #4" should be spelt out
  • Done.
• From the Legacy section:
• Do we really need to add 6 in-line citations after one simple statement?
  • The more links the better. If just one publication would say that The Da Vinci Code was influenced/carried similarities to Broken Sword, it wouldn't be notable. But if there's a lot of them, then it is, so I added them all. They all make the same claim, so there's no need for quoting what each and every one of them said.
• From the Future film section:
• "silver screen" - sounds rather glossy, simplify
  • Done.
• "the series was already successful, meaning a film would not be necessary" - suggest "the series was so successful that a film would not be necessary"
  • Done, but slightly differently.
• "Cecil believed if the film would be bad, it could only damage the series" - believed could be replaced with, eg, meant, thought. "Would be bad", a bit childish, perhaps: "would be proven as a failure"
  • Done.
• "it could only damage the series" - damage is weak in this case. Perhaps damage its reputation?
  • Done.
• Several mistakes and odd wordings in this sections, eg "and that he was re-writting the game to "make it work as a film treatment" - comma missing ahead "and"
  • Done with ", and re-writting the game into a film"
• or "In August 2012, Cecil said that he was Revolution are trying to", section needs a clean-up--Tomcat (7) 12:47, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Done.

Comments

• "for Broken Sword in 1992" I though this game was "Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars", if you are referring to the game series, provide a link per WP:REPEATLINK
  • It's for the game, not the series, so I'll simply say "for the game in 1992".
• "is serious in tone" does that represent a neutral point of view
  • No, Cecil said that was his intention in all of his games, and many reviews/articles say so to.
• Unlink "animated films" per WP:OVERLINK
  • Done.
• Same goes for "2D", "mouse", "gamepad", "puzzle", "player character", "Ireland", "Scotland"
  • Done.
• "with sales totaling one million copies by the mid-1990s" not very good prose at all here to be honest, change to "with over one million copies being sold by the mid-1990s" for clearer prose
  • Done, just that I said "around" rather than "over" - Cecil, and other sources as well, say either "around one million" or just "one million.
• Not the best prose in "all part of the", would suggest changing to "all of which are part of the"
  • I wrote, "collectively know as the Broken Sword series," I think it sounds nice.
• Link "Paris" upon first mention after lede as well per WP:REPEATLINK
  • Done.
• The non-free rationale for the plot section needs expanding per WP:NFCC. How does the image help the reader's understanding, would right now suggest removing, unless its rationale is expanded completely
  • Done.

More to come later. TBrandley 23:50, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Reflecting on what TBrandley said, "iOS versions"? Wii, DS, PC, and Android do not run on iOS. I don't think being based on that version = that version. « Ryūkotsusei » 20:24, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

What I wanted to say with "iOS versions" is that they received the most praise. Very positive, you're not going to find a score for the version below 80% percent, the average grade being 90-100&, while the DS/Wii versions were more 80%, with the PC, Mac and Android version receiving little, though still positive, reviews (in fact, there's not a single review for the Mac version, which isn't weird, because Mac doesn't support too many games). So, yes, what I wanted to say is "Wii/DS etc. reviews were positive, while the iOS versions were highly acclaimed." For now, I only tracked down only two reviews for the Android version - they're both "acclaiming", but you can't call the whole version acclaimed based on two reviews. --Khanassassin ☪ 20:55, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

• Comments:
  • Try to avoid parentheticals where possible. Consider if the thing is important enough to include and if so, see if you can reword it so you don't need a parenthetical. Emdash is your friend!
    • Uh, English isn't my first language, so I'm not sure what those are. Are they, like, minor things? Like a, "by the way" remark of something? And what do emdashes have to do with this? Sorry...
      • There are a large number of parenthetical statements used as asides. Try to integrate them better using commas and emdashes—long dashes which are used to break up text. See? Like that.
  • "acclaimed by critics who lauded" feels awkward. Also avoid passive voice. Perhaps "Critics lauded the game's story..."?
    • Done - changed to "Critics lauded..."
  • "with around one million copies being sold by the mid-1990s" --> "with one million copies sold by the mid-1990s"
    • Done.
  • Is there a reason why the box art is in Spanish?
    • Not really. It's been like that since forever. I uploaded an English version, but one user reverted it to the Spanish version, saying they're was a water mark on it, heh. I didn't see it though. This is not a problem, I'll just change it after I resolve the rest of the issues. :)
      • Alright please do. :) There's no reason why a game developed in English should feature Spanish box art on English Wikipedia.
  • Use a collapse box to hide most of the release dates. See Final Fantasy II for example.
    • Yeah, it's why better like this, isn't it? Done.
  • "easy navigation" --> "navigation"; easy is very colloquial
    • Yeah, you're right. Done.
  • "the player gets" --> "the player receives"; colloquial
    • Okay. Done.
  • "In The Shadow of the Templars, the player character's death is possible" need context here, why is this mentioned? Perhaps, "Unlike in most adventure games,"?
    • Done.
      • You missed a word. :P
        • Hah! Yeah, it's removed now. :)
  • Some of your semicolons in the plot section aren't appropriate, i.e., the two sentences aren't connected enough to warrant a semicolon.
    • I removed the ones I thought weren't needed, three in total.
    • Those were added after the copy-edit. I'm not really a semicolon-ish type, but I think that most of the semicolons make sense (there were five or so?) except one in the first paragraph about George talking to Nico and then discovering the clown's nose and stuff
      • I removed a few more.
        • Thanks. :)
  • Can you thesaurus the word "deduce"?
    • Yeah, there's like a gazillion of them. "Concludes, assumes, figures out..." Why? are they're to many in the plot?
      • It's used 4 times in the plot section which is probably 2 times too many.
  • The plot section feels a little like a play-by-play. I learn many people's names but they're only used once or twice. Is it possible to condense it and gloss over minor characters?
    • This is play-by-play. :)
      • Fine fine I won't bitch about the plot too much. I still think it's got a few too many named characters. Feel free to leave them unnamed to make the plot section more readable. It is more difficult to read if you must keep track of many names, especially if they're only used once or twice (e.g. Plantard, Marib, etc.).
        • Oh, cool. But I don't think I'd like to remove "Marib", because that's the name of a village not a person. Is we'd just say George's "going to a village in Syria" without the actual name wouldn't be much better. :)
  • First sentence in Dev section is very long with many commas. Please split.
    • Done.
  • Generation 4 lacks accents in Reception section. Dunno which is correct.
    • No no, you were right. Added.
  • "While most critics praised the game's voice acting and puzzles, PC Gamer US called the voice acting "the worst thing in the game" and "not too professional," feeling that some puzzles required "too much pixel-hunting."" That last clause is completely unrelated to the rest of the sentence.
    • You're right. I split it into its own sentesce.
      • Also, "while" is used three times in that paragraph. See WP:1a for alternatives and why you should usually avoid "while" altogether.
  • The Listings section is very dry. Is there a way to summarize it into maybe 2 lines? Like "Shadow of the Templars was listed as 'best adventure game of all time' by x, y, and z website"?
    • I've tried, but my horrible writing makes it sound like crap... heh
      • Well not all of those publications are notable, for one. I've never heard of Altered Gamer or NowGamer. See WP:VG/S to make sure all your sources qualify.
        • eah, Altered Gamer doesn't look like Mr. Notable. However, I have no doubt that NowGamer is: It's extremely often used as a source on Wikipedia, on GAs/FAs too, it's published by the notable Future Publishing, and it's also quite well-known (solid Alexa rank and a pretty big number of visitors) etc. So, I'd be cool with a removal of the Altered Gamer list, but not with removal of the NowGamer list. Just sayin'. :) Oh, and, NowGamer's not listed as a reliable source on that WP:RS page, but also not as a unreliable.
  • The Goat Puzzle seems like it deserves more than that short paragraph in terms of its legacy.
  • Semicolons in Sequels section again need work.
    • Done.
  • "but noted that it his feelings were that it" what's going on here? I can't understand.
    • Yeah, the first it shouldn't be there, heh. I removed it now, so... :)
  • Throughout the article: avoid passive voice, yo!
    • Sorry, I'm probably not right, but I don't see many passive voices (I always say that "Cecil's intentions were" or "Steve Ince drew" etc. etc. :) ). So, help me out? :)
      • "it was announced", "The idea of a film was encouraged", etc.
        • I think I'm done with the passive voices, in the Film section of course, but is there anymore?
• Alright done. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:41, 26 November 2012 (UTC)